Engine age verification no longer acceptable?

[Simon]

I think you are over thinking it.... The casting date is the date the block was made, the engine number would in all probability be stamped in when it was built....

[Russell]

Reading that, it sounds like there is no point in trying for age related emissions as I built my engine myself from all new parts (except for the block) so the date of manufacture will be when I assembled it!

So is the only way to get age related emissions now to use the engine as a whole assembly as it came out of the donor?

Fortunately I've built my engine with fuel injection so it should just be a case of adding cats which I think I will just do to save on the hassle.

R.

[Simon]

I contacted the DVSA K&R dept earlier this year about this very subject, this was their reply.....

Good morning Mr Winter, thank you for your email.
 
It is important to recognise that DVSA have not changed any rules. It has always been a requirement for an applicant to provide evidence of the date of engine manufacture if an applicant wishes to benefit from a lesser emission limit, where the IVA class permits this to take place.
 
Proof of engine age may be provided by the donor vehicle's V5C/logbook (if available and the engine number is visible or matches), or by evidence that has originated from the manufacturer themselves. This could, for example, be a written statement supplied directly from the manufacturer or possibly information gleaned from a workshop manual for the vehicle or engine. It is impossible to list all the options that could be considered. However, if you are able to provide information that can be reasonably assumed to have originated from the manufacturer and clearly identifies the age of the engine manufacture, it should be acceptable.
 
This is an important point to re-iterate: it is the date of engine manufacture that needs to be evidenced, and not individual components of the engine (i.e., the block), as the manufacture or assembly of the engine can sometimes be a considerable date in time beyond the manufacture of the component parts themselves. The evidence based on engine block casting numbers is unlikely to be considered in isolation, as castings/moulds can and are used many years after the casting is created. There are also known instances where new blocks have been created using old casting ID numbers, so this method is generally deemed too unreliable.
 
Where satisfactory evidence cannot be provided, the engine age will be assumed to be post 01/08/1997 for the purpose of the emissions test; in other words, the vehicle will then need to meet the default 'cat test' requirements (assuming it isn't a compression-ignition engine).
 
In your particular example, a statement provided by JLR would not be automatically rejected purely on the basis that JLR did not produce the RV8 engine – they are the current owners of the company that did produce it, and thus documentation issued by them would be considered.       
 
I hope this helps, but please do not hesitate to get back in touch if you feel I can assist further.
 
Regards,
 
Stuart Rangecroft | DVSA Vehicle Approvals Technical Engineer

[Cobragreyhead]

Im in this position (dax)with a '67 289, with a certify letter from PK racing (2019) with a stamped engine ID also on the letter.
With a couple books confirming block date code( but cant see it behind the starter- theres another date code on block flange)
Is this not enough? Must be quite a few people with earlier engines in this position just about to go through IVA ?

[tercuk]

Hi All, i'm in the same situation as many in mid build of their precious, has there been any way forward regarding a source of engine age verification and getting it through IVA.

Mines is a Ford 351 Cleveland D2AE-CA and heard there maybe books out there that can verify block codes to age of engine that IVA may accept?

Any help would be much appreciated, feel free to PM me or other.

Terry

[incey1966]

Well I've just read this and gone into a bit of a panic.
I'm approaching my end of build with a rebuilt SBC. Has anyone got any updates on what's acceptable as proof of engine age??

[Tony]

(BTW, who else misses the 'multi-quote' feature from the old forum?)

There is no mod to include multi quotes Aaron! the only one available doesn't work unless I pay for the pro version, which I ain't doing!!!

[aaronjb]

Well, I suppose if there is a silver lining, it is that you are now back in the garage?!

Ah, no.. twas just based on the FB thread, not time in the garage.. in fact, that's declined from almost nothing to nothing (now we're trying to move my mother closer to us, which means we're doing all the leg work with sols etc as her memory is basically nonexistent now, but she still won't move into a retirement village because "those are for old people"). Ho hum.

Only speculation but I would have thought it would mean metered emissions test rather than Q plates.

I am sure you're right, even with the change in engine age verification rules - engine age only has relation to the emissions test required while Q-plate or not is based on the 'score' (number of components used from a single donor vehicle); basically, anyway.

According to Anthony Hale (Crendon and Absolute Horsepower) it might be possible to take an engine publication with you that quotes block number vs age etc.
I've ordered two different ones in hope.

I saw that! Possibly via Anthony on FB, also. I laughed because .. isn't that what we did before they mandated engine age verification?! It's like we've come full circle, if so.

(BTW, who else misses the 'multi-quote' feature from the old forum?)

[Kev Davies UKCC Membership]

I'm in the same boat my 302 is based  on a 1983 block.
I have the age confirmation letter from Peter Knight too.
According to Anthony Hale (Crendon and Absolute Horsepower) it might be possible to take an engine publication with you that quotes block number vs age etc.
I've ordered two different ones in hope.

[Austin21]

Only speculation but I would have thought it would mean metered emissions test rather than Q plates.

[Russell]

What are the implications of this, does it just mean a stricter emission tests or could it actually result in a Q plate?

I'm hoping to go for IVA this summer. I have a SBF with a 1987 block, fortunately I've gone with fuel injection and I've not finalised the internals of my side pipes yet so it's not too late to fit some cats in them if needs be.

R.

[Dek]

I heard that too Aaron from a chap across the road in Buckton Fields who's built a Cobra and looking to get it IVA'd. I popped round last year to see it and told him to go to Knight Racing to get the engine age authenticated. He told me recently that the rules had been changed. If you make any progress keep me up to date and I'll pass it on. Got to avoid  Q plate if possible.

[KevinW]

Well, I suppose if there is a silver lining, it is that you are now back in the garage?!

As for proof of age for your fleet of Ford FEs, maybe you should get one sorted from here asap:
https://www.ford.co.uk/support/how-tos/owner-resources/vehicle-documents/how-to-get-a-build-date-letter

[aaronjb]

I saw this over on the FB group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1837422120064758/posts/1907784713028498/

Basically, the long & short of that seems to be - you can no longer build a car with an old engine and have the engine age verified by someone like Knight Racing; you'll need proof of age from the original engine manufacturer.

Which surely means building a new car with an old engine is basically now impossible.

Bit of a problem for those of us mid-build, if that's right (and it has been corroborated by several on that thread)!