Hi all.
Please excuse me being an interloper as I don't own a Pilgrim but I am trying to help out a friend (who is in turn trying to help this car's new owner) and as the title says we are looking for some information about the Sumo so he knows what parts he's dealing with.
I know a little of the Pilgrim as I looked at possibly building one when I built my GD back in the late '90s but what little I do "know" may be lost in the mists of time.
This car was registered in 1999 and it is unknown who built it or how many owners or modifications it's been through in the past.
The current owner is new to the car and does not know much about its 'roots'. They were told that the car was Ford Granada based but I've had a look around the car and don't think this is correct mainly because it has 4 stud wheels and from what I can tell the Granada had 5 stud right back to the earliest cars. It's fairly obvious that the car is Ford based though (steering column cowl, door handles and a few other parts give this away) and given that it has semi-trailing link rear axle I suspect it is Sierra based.
It is possible that the car originally had the Granada V6 engine but this has been changed at some point to a (allegedly) Ford 302 V8 and this brings me to the first "issue" we are trying to solve.
The car sits quite low, wheels slightly up into the arches and tyres contacting inner arches over bumps. The suspension has the spring platforms on the, possibly Spax, dampers wound all the way up so without fitting spacers the body can't be lifted. One possible reason for this could be that the engine change has put more weight into the car hence bringing the body down if the springs were not uprated to cope with this.
We're not in a position to test the spring rating but I can see that the fronts have a red paint mark on them. Does anyone know if this is an indication of the spring rate?
If these are not correct, what spring weight would be expected for this engine combination?
The second issue we may want to deal with is brakes. The current setup is drums rear, disks front, the front discs being quite small although they are vented. Front calipers are 2 pot opposed pistons and look like they came off the donor. The system does include a servo but this is relatively small in diameter (maybe 9") and shallow in profile (circa 2") so can only be a single diaphragm. The owner want's more braking power and is considering:
Larger front discs with 4 pot calipers.
Converting the rears to disks with uprated calipers.
Increasing servo power (larger diameter and/or dual diaphragm)
Possibly other mod's we havn't thought of yet – Open to suggestions.
Modifications to disks will need to fit under 15" wheels.
I will be looking through the threads on here but that may take time so if anyone has any information they'd like to impart or suggestions to make or if there are any established upgrade paths in this area we would welcome the input.
Thanks in advance for any feedback, information or suggestions
A friend of mine built and registered his around the time of the sva testing that being 1999.
What I can tell you, it was Sierra and Granada based hence the 5 stud wheels, the differential was from a
GT Sierra that being of a low ratio, about 3.7 - 1 , therefore fairly quick to a ton, but that was about it.
The engine choice was a 3.5 l RV 8, the Pilgrim set up was good for that but would have been borderline for small
block yank engines 350 cubic inches etc without modifications .
Some of the earlier Pilgrims also used Cortina parts was what he mentioned whilst he was carrying out his
project .
He did actually give a full run down on his build up under Bob The Cob, I'm not sure this is still in ex instance
due to the old Cobra Club disappearing from the web ?
Chris.
Hi Chris,
I remember Bob the Cob and he use to come along to our meets at the half way house.
Bob did a complete build write up in snake torque and I have most of the back issues so could look to post the build in the Pilgrim section.
A good source is "A car is born" video where Mark builds a Pilgrim. All the series are on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErlWLyisEDA
He uses Sierra donar parts rear drums and vented front disc.
The spring rating as you say should have been upgraded to a higher rating going from the Ford V6 (370 lbs to V8 Ford 302 500lbs about 100-130 lb extra weight up front. You can take the springs to suspension suppliers like Gaz who can measure them.
Quote from: Chris on Aug 01, 2025, 05:59 PMA friend of mine built and registered his around the time of the sva testing that being 1999.
What I can tell you, it was Sierra and Granada based hence the 5 stud wheels, the differential was from a
GT Sierra that being of a low ratio, about 3.7 - 1 , therefore fairly quick to a ton, but that was about it.
The engine choice was a 3.5 l RV 8, the Pilgrim set up was good for that but would have been borderline for small
block yank engines 350 cubic inches etc without modifications .
Some of the earlier Pilgrims also used Cortina parts was what he mentioned whilst he was carrying out his
project .
He did actually give a full run down on his build up under Bob The Cob, I'm not sure this is still in ex instance
due to the old Cobra Club disappearing from the web ?
Chris.
Thanks Chris.
I must admit I had similar thoughts regarding the capability to take more powerful engines which was part of my decision not to progress with the Pilgrim model. If I recall correctly I had a telephone call with the company and when I asked about the expected finished weight was told it would be something in the order of 1300KG, as I was looking to create a lighter weight vehicle this also helped move my decision to the Gardner Douglas.
If this car was a single donor vehicle then it must be Sierra due to the 4 stud wheels. This of course does not dictate that this could not have been mixed with the Granada engine which the owner appears to think is the case (not sure why).
Being based on Sierra rather than Granada shouldn't be too much of a problem though as there were some higher spec' versions of that car including the Cosworth so presumably parts from those cars could be used for things such as the brake improvements but as I say the first issues is working out what the spring rates are and what they should be. I believe my friend who is working on this has since ordered a new set of springs and dampers from Pilgrim in which case I guess the spec' of the current setup is unimportant.
Quote from: JON1D on Aug 01, 2025, 11:14 PMHi Chris,
I remember Bob the Cob and he use to come along to our meets at the half way house.
Bob did a complete build write up in snake torque and I have most of the back issues so could look to post the build in the Pilgrim section.
A good source is "A car is born" video where Mark builds a Pilgrim. All the series are on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErlWLyisEDA
He uses Sierra donar parts rear drums and vented front disc.
The spring rating as you say should have been upgraded to a higher rating going from the Ford V6 (370 lbs to V8 Ford 302 500lbs about 100-130 lb extra weight up front. You can take the springs to suspension suppliers like Gaz who can measure them.
Thanks for the information Jon, I did remember the Mark Evans series as this was around the time I was building mine. Don't think I could watch it at that point as it was on a TV stream which I didn't have (Sky or something like that) but did watch it later IIRC he started off intending to build with a V6 (or possibly 4 pot) Ford engine and then switched to a V8 mid-build. I'll give it a look.
Hi
I knew I had this information about the springs and their colours. I finally found it this evening.
(https://i.postimg.cc/GHtLpSPT/Screenshot-2016-09-15-12-51-18.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GHtLpSPT)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y46kVc7Z/Screenshot-2016-09-15-12-53-01.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Y46kVc7Z)
I hope this helps?
Quote from: Sumocobra on Aug 02, 2025, 07:08 PMHi
I knew I had this information about the springs and their colours. I finally found it this evening.
I hope this helps?
Thanks Sumocobra, that does help a lot. Looks like we are currently on the 450lb springs with the red mark which was probably OK when the car had the smaller engine but also looks like it should now be on the 550lb springs. This all bears out the theory we had come up with for this car.
If it helps, I built a Sumo back in 2003 with a Chevy 350 V8 where I had blue springs (700) on the front and white (550) on the rear.
Quote from: JING on Aug 04, 2025, 03:54 PMIf it helps, I built a Sumo back in 2003 with a Chevy 350 V8 where I had blue springs (700) on the front and white (550) on the rear.
Thanks for the reply JING.
I'm sure that will help, it would be a good comparison.
I must admit when I saw that list of springs I did wonder who/why/where the heavier springs if the suggested setup was 550(F), 450(R).
How do you find the ride in your car, complient or hard/harsh? What sort of driving do you do and what sort of roads?
The roads round here are wuite pot holed and I suspect this owner is looking for a smooth ride rather than sporty.
Did you try any other spring rates?
@GDCobra - At the time, the ride was good and well balanced for normal A & B roads. I do not recall it being harsh in anyway.
I no longer have the Pilgrim, sold it many years back, although it does appear to still be on the road somewhere.
Quote from: JING on Aug 06, 2025, 09:24 AM@GDCobra - At the time, the ride was good and well balanced for normal A & B roads. I do not recall it being harsh in anyway.
I no longer have the Pilgrim, sold it many years back, although it does appear to still be on the road somewhere.
Thanks for that JING